Aggressive Poems

[Emmie]

OK, so this has been an ongoing "problem" for quite some time in my opinion. I've seen many people on many occasions make aggressive poems about other people (not named) in what I can only take as an attempt to make the other person look bad and get people on your side. And yes, you're not calling someone out by name, but they will know who they are, and they will mostly likely not enjoy it. Meanwhile, other people will hear your side of the story of some kind of drama that you felt you had to make public. Have you asked this person if it's ok to write a poem about them in such a way? Were they ok with it? Would you be happy if someone wrote a poem like that about you? Was this so important it had to be made public? If you said no to any of these 4 questions, then no, I don't think it was right to post your poem.

They wronged you? Does that mean you have to pull everyone else in on the drama train? I'm not calling anyone out, and I'm not putting anyone at fault, these are my own opinons on the matter, and I just don't like these kinds of poems. They are hateful and mean, and even if I haven't had the displeasure of having one directed at me yet, I still feel affected every time I read one, and every time I see people encouraging it. There are moderators on this forum, me included. And in-game, me not included. If you have a problem with someone and legit think they've taken it too far, take it up with the moderators. And if it's something minor, take it up with the person in question. And if you feel the need to write a poem about it, do it for yourself. Don't make yourself feel better at the cost of another persons feelings.

Just cause you and someone else don't see eye to eye, doesn't mean you should do your best to hurt that persons feelings. Now, I know this might seem corny, but it hasn't always been like this. When I first started out, and for quite a while after, we never really saw things like this. I'm sure people argued, and I'm sure there was drama. But people didn't try to publically shame others. Now, I am going to talk with my fellow moderators about this. But I sincerely ask people to stop posting these poems, wether or not it's allowed shouldn't matter.

[Emmie]

Thanks for reading, and again, no one should feel like this is directed at them, this is just my feelings on this in general.

[EroticUdyr]

[Sharp]

This is such a tricky area. There is a lot of difference between one person intentionally causing upset or offence, or somebody being unintentionally upset or offended. And intention is hard to prove.

If I were to write a poem saying "Sorry fatty, you're much too round; With an ass too big for me to pound," that would be intentionally abusive and offensive towards larger people (this is just an example) and is not acceptable.

If I were to write a poem with the line "Emmie is a pig, she eats too much (sandwhich) cake," that is aggressive towards a named individual and is not acceptable.

If I were to write a poem and say "Sometimes I wish you wouldn't eat so much" or "I don't like your body, it's just not my type," then there is no named individual, and no clear target of any abuse. In my eyes this is okay. 

Now, if Emmie had recently been trying to get me into bed (I'm trying to give a realistic example here), and had shown me some pictures of her, and I'd responded by telling her I would prefer it if she lost a few pounds, or stopped eatig so much sandwich cake, and I then posted the third hypothetical poem, then that could be considered targeted. This is not acceptable.

Again, this is opinion. We don't wish to censor creativity, but do want to ensure all users enjoy the forum.

[Anallee]

Perhaps we should rename the forum Censored Writing.  Personally I find what you have written offensive, but I respect your freedom to do so.  Have you ever considered that many of these poems are drawn from real life?  Have you considered that an anonymous avatar here can never evoke such passion?  Have you considered poetic license?  Have you considered the fact that many have died protecting the right to free speech?  Have you considered the simple fact that these poems evoking and eliciting a response from you, is exactly what they are intended to do?

Consider these before you speak with your other moderators.  Your veiled threat can't stop art.  It never has.  It never will.  Here's a thought, don't read them.  If you need more food  for thought I will be happy to provide that also.

[Anallee]

(05-26-2016, 05:38 AM)Boy_No_Good Wrote: I have clearly stated in my own thread that the poems/lyrics I'm posting are from a few years ago. This obviously means they can't be about anybody in the game (which I don't even play now) or on the forum (unless somebody here happens to coincidentally be somebody from my past). So if anybody has taken issue with my stuff, I will be happy to add some kind of disclaimer warning people that some content is angry and aggressive, but any offence taken when reading is 100% down to the reader.

Expect no disclaimers nor apologies from me.

[RP_RICK]

I do have my views on this matter, but considering the kind of speach im already reading, I'll just walk away...

[EroticUdyr]

(05-26-2016, 12:18 AM)Anallee Wrote: Perhaps we should rename the forum Censored Writing.  Personally I find what you have written offensive, but I respect your freedom to do so.  Have you ever considered that many of these poems are drawn from real life?  Have you considered that an anonymous avatar here can never evoke such passion?  Have you considered poetic license?  Have you considered the fact that many have died protecting the right to free speech?  Have you considered the simple fact that these poems evoking and eliciting a response from you, is exactly what they are intended to do?

Consider these before you speak with your other moderators.  Your veiled threat can't stop art.  It never has.  It never will.  Here's a thought, don't read them.  If you need more food  for thought I will be happy to provide that also.

I'm gonna throw my own opinions out here as well.
If some content on this forum is found offensive by some viewers, wouldn't it be for the best to remove it or edit it?
Having freedom to speak out is one thing, but to make a public post where you subtly target a specific individual? Isn't that kinda the same as speaking out to a mob about said individual? 

"Personally I find what you have written offensive, but I respect your freedom to do so.", do you actually think everyone would immediately respect the author's freedom of speech after reading a negative poem about oneself? Would you?

Also, you neglect the fact that this post was Emmie's own subjective opinions. When you point out things like "freedom of speech", whilst labeling the post as a "veiled threat", you are doing the same thing you're accusing Emmie of doing. You make it seem like she is trying to make someone shut up, when you're the one labeling her opinions as threats! Irony.
Doesn't Emmie have freedom of speech as well? She basically just said she didn't approve, and explained why she had that opinion. How is that a threat? Do you feel threatened?

"Here's a thought, don't read them", the poems Emmie is talking about aren't (as far as I know) targeted at her. Meaning, even if she doesn't read them, the target will. Which would not change the fact that the poem is targeted at one specific individual. Making your "thought" absolutely void.

Even if the poems are drawn from real life, does that mean your opinions about someone else MUST go public?
I'm not denying that you are free to state your opinions, but the forum has guidelines. Guidelines to make sure no one is feeling they're being targeted by negative feelings, opinions and/or statements.
Not everyone makes poems, and the targeted individual might not be able to answer with her/his own poem. In some cases, there'd be only one side of the dispute that is able to make such a public statement. 
Which tells us that the one making a statement to the public (in form of a poem) obviously is in a position to receive support, whilst the other is not.



Now, I kinda just want to add more of my own opinions here: Some of these cases are extremely ironic. For I know, with certainty, that some people are and/or have been feeling bullied. Making a poem like targeting one individual, is disgusting. 
I will tell why I think so. The author has usually victimized himself/herself, which is not really an effective way of sharing your own opinion. Instead of seeing people actually agree with you, you will find people pity you. Pity does not always mean the same thing as being agreed with in a dispute, no matter what the topic or the essence of the dispute is. 
Also, the poems are targeted to one individual, yes. Though, there will of course be several readers. Meaning, it can be compared to speaking out to a mob, where the author is talking ill of said individual. The mob mentality is something that will kick in at this point, and every reader will be curious to know who the poem is directed at.
And there you go, you've made a bandwagon. Congratulations, you have successfully made several people target one specific individual.
In some cases, the targeted individual doesn't make the same kind of public statements. In other words, the author has a certain power and/or dominant control, both over the target and the mob.
And this, by definition, counts as bullying.

If an author of such a poem, successfully makes a mob target one individual, it classifies as bullying.
Here is the disgusting part, some of the authors of these poems claim they are being bullied.



The sweet combination of cringe and irony makes this topic into a huge pot of delicious bullshit.
Now that is art.

-Erotic

[Anallee]

(05-26-2016, 08:25 AM)EroticUdyr Wrote:

(05-26-2016, 12:18 AM)Anallee Wrote: Perhaps we should rename the forum Censored Writing.  Personally I find what you have written offensive, but I respect your freedom to do so.  Have you ever considered that many of these poems are drawn from real life?  Have you considered that an anonymous avatar here can never evoke such passion?  Have you considered poetic license?  Have you considered the fact that many have died protecting the right to free speech?  Have you considered the simple fact that these poems evoking and eliciting a response from you, is exactly what they are intended to do?

Consider these before you speak with your other moderators.  Your veiled threat can't stop art.  It never has.  It never will.  Here's a thought, don't read them.  If you need more food  for thought I will be happy to provide that also.

I'm gonna throw my own opinions out here as well.
If some content on this forum is found offensive by some viewers, wouldn't it be for the best to remove it or edit it?
Having freedom to speak out is one thing, but to make a public post where you subtly target a specific individual? Isn't that kinda the same as speaking out to a mob about said individual? 

"Personally I find what you have written offensive, but I respect your freedom to do so.", do you actually think everyone would immediately respect the author's freedom of speech after reading a negative poem about oneself? Would you?

Also, you neglect the fact that this post was Emmie's own subjective opinions. When you point out things like "freedom of speech", whilst labeling the post as a "veiled threat", you are doing the same thing you're accusing Emmie of doing. Doesn't Emmie have freedom of speech as well? She basically just said she didn't approve, and explained why she had that opinion. How is that a threat? Do you feel threatened?

"Here's a thought, don't read them", the poems Emmie is talking about aren't (as far as I know) targeted at her. Meaning, even if she doesn't read them, the target will. Which would not change the fact that the poem is targeted at one specific individual. Making your "thought" absolutely void.

Even if the poems are drawn from real life, does that mean your opinions about someone else MUST go public?
I'm not denying that you are free to state your opinions, but the forum has guidelines. Guidelines to make sure no one is feeling they're being targeted by negative feelings, opinions and/or statements.
Not everyone makes poems, and the targeted individual might not be able to answer with her/his own poem. In some cases, there'd be only one side of the dispute that is able to make such a public statement. 
Which tells us that the one making a statement to the public (in form of a poem) obviously is in a position to receive support, whilst the other is not.



Now, I kinda just want to add more of my own opinions here: Some of these cases are extremely ironic. For I know, with certainty, that some people are and/or have been feeling bullied. Making a poem like targeting one individual, is disgusting. 
I will tell why I think so. The author has usually victimized himself/herself, which is not really an effective way of sharing your own opinion. Instead of seeing people actually agree with you, you will find people pity you. Pity does not always mean the same thing as being agreed with in a dispute, no matter what the topic or the essence of the dispute is. 
Also, the poems are targeted to one individual, yes. Though, there will of course be several readers. Meaning, it can be compared to speaking out to a mob, where the author is talking ill of said individual. The mob mentality is something that will kick in at this point, and every reader will be curious to know who the poem is directed at.
And there you go, you've made a bandwagon. Congratulations, you have successfully made several people target one specific individual.
In some cases, the targeted individual doesn't make the same kind of public statements. In other words, the author has a certain power and/or dominant control, both over the target and the mob.
And this, by definition, counts as bullying.

If an author of such a poem, successfully makes a mob target one individual, it classifies as bullying.
Here is the disgusting part, some of the authors of these poems claim they are being bullied.



The sweet combination of cringe and irony makes this topic into a huge pot of delicious bullshit.
Now that is art.

-Erotic

An extensive yet nonetheless bit of circular reasoning.  So you tell me.  Who is being targeted?  Who is being bullied?  Who will be the censors?  And who are the victims?  What mob do you see?  Cutting and pasting my points, neglecting content or intent proves nothing.  I have read all these poems.  I cannot identify an individual.  I identify the pain.  Perhaps you have a power we don't.  If you are referring to my poems, I have made it abundantly clear that none of you rise to that level of passion with me.  They are drawn from my life and people with faces, or is that too difficult for you to understand.  I have read far more offensive pieces here, yet I respect the authors' right to post.  I hardly agree with a lot of it and I don't prevent it from being posted.  Creative writing is just that.  And, if anyone feels ill at ease when reading some of it, perhaps there is a valid reason for that.

Political correctness will be the death of us all.

[Drek]

Like i've stated in my thread everything what i've posted is written two and half years ago and has no relataion to any of you here and any people from the game, it's drawn from real life.