Economy balance discussion

[Adam]

(07-09-2018, 10:49 PM)Zephyr Wrote: AdamKroenen
I stand corrected.  I just never came across it.  That it was more expensive than now seems to reflect that money was easier to get then.

Some things in Emmie’s post I agree with, some I do not.

New ways to get in game money is not evidence of inflation;  it just means you can sidestep mini-games.

Apartments and houses were always going to be expensive;  hard to cite initial house price when there have been refunds.

Is there inflation?  Gown or suit still costs the same.  Nurse’s outfit is more than bloodsucker and jumpsuit from same location as farmgirl is more so I will accept that.  But none cost more than an hour in mini-game.

I have a prem account so I can collect £1000 per day;  perk of prem or illegitimate money?  Non prems can easily get all they need in little game time;  prems may have more to buy but also can collect money.

I don’t agree with Emmie’s description of it being illegitimate money but I agree with its origin;   maybe it was built up in anticipation of housing.

Totally agree that less new money is now being brought into game, obvious, but in circulation maybe more.  Got $1m and find house is only $200k so spend rest on code.  And also designs.  Auctions have largely been a place to show off:  buy friends.

Well I knew about of 8-10 sellers. They said that had not time for alt farm. And they prefered sell prem codes for had a lot of money for spend on auctions and stuff. xD A girl was selling several codes(3-6-12) cause wanted have 100M on game(ridiculous) At the end she start to gift the money(10-12M) On poles cause she got warned, and leave to 3dx to play after got banned from Mnf. lol

[Jenna-X]

(07-11-2018, 09:42 PM)Zephyr Wrote: I think that you misunderstand on your first point.  Player A has a house and $1m.  Nothing else to spend it on so $1m is useless.  But he does need to renew prem.  Player B wants a house.

B sells code to A.  A has spent in game money that he does not value but gained a code that he does.  B has spent $25 to get $400k in game money that is worth more to him than $25.

No I didn't misunderstand anything.  Player B took advantage of player A's cash and spent $25 instead of $50 to get immediate access to a house and have plenty of excess spending money.  Nobody needs a house unless they throw parties.  However, a game subscription was purchased.  It didn't impact the economy, non premium players or premium players.  It does impact those unwilling to spend $25 on a video game for a 3 month sub.  Maybe we should ask if we really care about those who won't spend $25 or should we cater to those unwilling to support the game?

[Zephyr]

Adam, Interesting post.
They sold codes but money came into game by alt farming.

They were effectively buying in game money for real money.

Auctions, not often mentioned, seems to be an area where people might have reasonable complaint about the money some have.  But not part of mnf, a private arrangement.

100m is ridiculous and useless.  But with 6 AVs allowed on a prem account I can see an argument for 1.5 – 2m.

Why did she get warned/banned?

Jenna-X, Sorry if I offended, not my intention.  We basically agree but maybe at cross purposes.

Player B took advantage of player A's cash.  That is true but my point was that Player A got rid of cash that was no use and saved $25 real money and B got more in game cash than buying in game money.  Both win and mnf still sells code.  No guarantee A would have bought code and B house otherwise.

Nobody needs a house unless they throw parties.  True, but you don't need a design to use apartment; or multiple outfits.  People just want and why not?

It didn't impact the economy, non premium players or premium players.  It does impact those unwilling to spend $25 on a video game for a 3 month sub.  Agree with first part but don’t understand second.

Maybe we should ask if we really care about those who won't spend $25 or should we cater to those unwilling to support the game?

Good point.  I would say we need a mass of players.  Maybe some will get prem but I started off non-prem;  we don’t want to discourage players.  I don’t think non-prems cost game anything;  ok, server space.

There has to be a big differentiation between prem and non-prem to make paying worthwhile.  But some things could be opened up to non-prems without eroding this.  Maybe by opening things up at a certain level, like baths.  But this is not really the thread for it.

[Alexa_Darkness]

I think that the $1000 payment the Premium players get for creating a new avatar should be scrapped.  Technically its still farming, plus all those avatar names I assume consume a fair amount data, not counting all the data for the avatars.

Yes I know, that will mean Premium players will be down around $30,000 per month.  So why not give them a login payment.  Other games do it, for example 3DX Chat pays players $100 on the 1st day, then $150, $200, $250 & finally $300 on the 5th day.  If players continue to login each day they continue to get $300, however if they miss a day, they get reset back down to $100, having to start from scratch.

So why not do this on MnF Club for Premium Players with $200 on the first login, then £400, $600, $800 and finally $1000.  The decision regarding Non-Premium players getting a login payment, that would be up to MnF Club, but if they did you could give them 10%... so $20, $40, $60, $80 & $100.

But still keep the mini-games to earn money.  And there is nothing to stop MnF Club selling game cash, as all the games do it, but it would help if there was more to buy.

[Skaylar]

(07-12-2018, 07:20 PM)Lady_Alexa Wrote: So why not do this on MnF Club for Premium Players with $200 on the first login, then £400, $600, $800 and finally $1000.  The decision regarding Non-Premium players getting a login payment, that would be up to MnF Club, but if they did you could give them 10%... so $20, $40, $60, $80 & $100.

Great idea but how would it work for multiple avatars? also I do not believe it would be a good idea to give login rewards to non premium players. A dedicated farmer could make 10,000+ while only having to waste between 2 to 3 hours a week.

[Zephyr]

First, I have to say that I don’t think that there is an economy problem. Therefore changes cannot achieve anything positive but are only likely to result in negative outcomes.

Farming is a meaningless term when mnf allows it after stopping it generally. It is a perk of being prem. If stopped, prem becomes less worthwhile and fewer will buy. I doubt that it is a major server capacity problem but players would get nothing back if it was.

Because other games do something does not mean it is good or suitable for this game.

So, instead of deleting/creating a new AV I log in and log off. What does that achieve? Tell me.

Login rewards have been suggested for non-prems. I’ve not commented before. Pointless! Log in and get a few $ when you get that in minutes in mini-game.

[NotCharlieHarper]

(07-12-2018, 10:35 PM)Zephyr Wrote: First, I have to say that I don’t think that there is an economy problem.  Therefore changes cannot achieve anything positive but are only likely to result in negative outcomes.

Farming is a meaningless term when mnf allows it after stopping it generally.  It is a perk of being prem.  If stopped, prem becomes less worthwhile and fewer will buy.  I doubt that it is a major server capacity problem but players would get nothing back if it was.

Because other games do something does not mean it is good or suitable for this game.

So, instead of deleting/creating a new AV I log in and log off.  What does that achieve?  Tell me.

Login rewards have been suggested for non-prems.  I’ve not commented before.  Pointless!  Log in and get a few $ when you get that in minutes in mini-game.

Hey Zephyr

 I think I there's an economy problem in MnF, the problem is that the currency flow gets stuck somewhere (somewhere mostly on a prem account). And I think that a solution to the problem to making prem "less worthwhile" is to add a side banner ad for non-prems so they actually support the game only by playing. And the double currency idea that I already gave earlier is a good solution to encourage people to keep playing and to reduce most of the currency flow bottleneck that there is actually...

[Zephyr]

Hi Charlie, good to have your input.

I disagree about there being an economy problem but there are many of both opinions.

There is a lot of dead money and it is not surprising that it rests mostly with prems. How does this unspendable money affect economy? Have not seen an explanation.

You talk about currency flow; is that between players or into game? Making it harder to replace game money surely reduces flow between players.

Mnf will not want to make prem less worthwhile; they want to sell codes. Side issue but I think non-prems could have more; older poses or clothes, maybe as a level reward.

How does this side banner work? Is it that mnf gets advertising revenue?

I know some games have double currencies but what are suggesting? We have exp and $

I did not support exchanging exp for $ in a poll some time ago; I now think that might have been a good idea.

[Alexa_Darkness]

(07-12-2018, 10:32 PM)Skaylar Wrote:

(07-12-2018, 07:20 PM)Lady_Alexa Wrote: So why not do this on MnF Club for Premium Players with $200 on the first login, then £400, $600, $800 and finally $1000.  The decision regarding Non-Premium players getting a login payment, that would be up to MnF Club, but if they did you could give them 10%... so $20, $40, $60, $80 & $100.

Great idea but how would it work for multiple avatars? also I do not believe it would be a good idea to give login rewards to non premium players. A dedicated farmer could make 10,000+ while only having to waste between 2 to 3 hours a week.

If this system was setup similar to 3DX Chat, then all earnings would be on the account, not the avatar.  I never understood why each individual avatar had its own money/fund.

[NotCharlieHarper]

(07-13-2018, 07:38 PM)Zephyr Wrote: Hi Charlie, good to have your input.

I disagree about there being an economy problem but there are many of both opinions.

There is a lot of dead money and it is not surprising that it rests mostly with prems.  How does this unspendable money affect economy?  Have not seen an explanation.

You talk about currency flow; is that between players or into game?  Making it harder to replace game money surely reduces flow between players.

Mnf will not want to make prem less worthwhile;  they want to sell codes.  Side issue but I think non-prems could have more; older poses or clothes, maybe as a level reward.

How does this side banner work?  Is it that mnf gets advertising revenue?

I know some games have double currencies but what are suggesting?  We have exp and $

I did not support exchanging exp for $ in a poll some time ago;  I now think that might have been a good idea.

 Hey Zephyr

I'm starting with the side banner ad point, basically yes, MnF gets money for advertising other games/pages, only non-prems will see this ads, so that way non-prems do contribute with just playing the game.

With the double currency thing, exp shouldn't be a currency at all, exp in most games is a measure to increase your level and maybe get skill points when you level up, and that skill point may be other "currency", exp should remain just like a measurement of your level, not like some type of money. It's not efficient that to get a new pose you have to spend exp, that it just takes away the goal to reach a higher level. Back to the double currency thing, my point was to make this exp issue disappear, for example, giving "x amount of gold coins" (the new currency) for leveling up, and having daily rewars giving x amount of gold coins for day 5 login, day 10, etc. And with this gold coins you buy poses, so you don't spend your exp so you can level up faster (also exp system needs some tweaks). With this same gold coins you should be able to buy prem poses/items or even prem itself (being it a fair big amount, of course) this way you could close the gap between prem and non-prems. Also, players should be able to trade with this gold coins, for example to buy designs, pics, slaves, etc. (everything that goes into the market). I think the game should be fair for every player, and there's a lot of mechanics and tools that could be implemented to keep a perfect balance between a "free to play" game and a "pay to win" one. I always based this idea on Warframe currencies, I played that game for some years, and I just keep loving that economic system 

https://www.polygon.com/2018/1/2/1683032...p-platinum here in this note you can read how it works (if no links are allowed just pm me and I'll edit it out). And this doesn't make prem less worthwhile, because to have prem poses/items you have to grind/farm for them, and having prem should make you capable of buying them directly with game dollars. And remember that ad for non-prems I mentioned before, that makes non-prems "more worthwhile" making the balance even, closing the non-prem/prem gap.

With the thing that you said "non-prems could have more", I agree, because this is a sex game, and they shouldn't limit your poses just because you didn't contribute to the game, that makes you wan't to quit because it's some sort of "pay to win" game where you are easily denied for not having "x prem pose" or just for not being prem (not actually saying that you wont get lucky, that depends on your charisma, ofc, but prems do have some advantage). In the last suggestions thread (#2) I mentioned to have a lot more poses and variety of poses/items (like a lot of new content) so players spend time grinding for new poses and items while they level up till they get to the level cap, and still have items to buy then, so you don't end with the stashed money mentioned before.

Anyways, thats all I have to say for today, and if you find some grammar issues, sorry it's 7am here and I still didn't sleep yet :/

Regards! And sorry for making the post too long