Scam alert

[WOLVIE44]

i found a guy selling a premium account online today with 33k in it in westurn area

[busyman1]

Hmmm... What exactly is the problem with selling your premium account to someone..? Lets's say I am tired of playing, but my account is maxed-out premium with all poses and clothes, etc., and with a balance of game money. If I can find someone who wants to short-cut through all the experience-gaining time and is willing to pay me for the account - what's so illegal or immoral in this?
There is, of course, the little problem of not being able to change your password So that if the seller is a scam artist - they can sell their account to 10 different people, and then all these players will wonder what is going on with their balance and friends lists
But, in my opinion, the developers really should allow players to change their passwords and e-mails and logins on their own. AAnd make login and e-mail separate items.

[Emmie]

Probably for the same reason why you're not allowed to sell your accounts in any other mmo. You don't own it in any sense of the word, so why should you be allowed to sell it?

[busyman1]

Hmmm... if I paid for it - I own it. I do not own the game, but I do own the avatar and login to my account. What difference does it make to the admin who is behind the keyboard?

[Sharp]

(07-20-2016, 01:54 PM)busyman1 Wrote: Hmmm...  if I paid for it - I own it.    I do not own the game, but I do own the avatar and login to my account.  What difference does it make to the admin who is behind the keyboard?

Wrong. You are subscribing to a service. You can't own a service. There was no purchase, merely a subscription. And it isn't about whether it matters to the devs; what matters is that it is fraud. Selling something you don't own is illegal.

You own literally no part of your account; not the login, not the password, especially not the avatars or any in-game currency or clothes.

If you rent a car, do you own it? No. Can you sell it? No. Treat this in the same way.

A batter analogy is iTunes. You subscribe to that and gain access to the music. You don't own anything though. If you sell the music, that is fraud. If you sell the access to iTunes, that is fraud.

And no matter how petty or minor it may seem, fraud is always a crime. Unless committed by government officials; apparently that's okay~

Also, note what it says in the ToS, mainly points 5 and 6
   

[Emmie]

I hope that was a joke busyman. Cause you could tell that to like all the companies that work hard to get rid of gold sellers. Which is also not allowed. Cause you don't even own the "currency" you've gathered in a game. This is not some new concept. It's been this way for as long as I can remember. ^^ Now, I can't speak for the developers of each game. Perhaps Vadim wouldn't mind, but you'd have to talk with him about that. But in general, no, you don't own anything, no, you're not allowed to sell it and no, a subscription doesn't give you the right to do it.

Obviously it's still possible, but that doesn't make it right.

---

Also, Sharp's attachment explains it quite well. xD

[busyman1]

Sharp - you are correct, thank you for pointing this out - I forgot about those points in ToS and stand corrected.
Emmie - no joke. If it wasn't for those points 5 and 6 that Sharp directed my attention to, I really see nothing wrong in someone putting in their time and effort into developing their avatar characteristics and then selling it to a person who wants the benefits of such but does not want to put the effort in.
In reality - those ToS points are put in there to protect the game administration from user complaints about hi-jacked accounts, along the lines of "I gave someone my login and they screwed up my avatar, and now i want everything back" - well, the answer, according to the ToS, would be "well, we told you so, your problem". Which is absolutely right. However, the concept of two consenting adults coming to an agreement on the use of the avatar has nothing inherently wrong with it. Ok, I don't own my avatar. And the person I would potentially allow to use it does not own it, either. The money flows to the game admins, regardless of who uses it. As long as there are no complaints being raised - I see no problems. In fact, were I one of the admins - I would build in a mechanism of legally transferring game property (up to and including the account itself) from one user to another for a fee, of which a certain percentage would be a "tax", for lack of better term, going into the corporate coffers

[Sharp]

Yeah, other than the fact it's 100% illegal, there is nothing wrong. It's FRAUD! IT IS WRONG ON ALL LEVELS!

[Emmie]

Basically, what you do when you do that busyman, is selling something you do not own. How do you not see something wrong with that. Imagine you 2nd hand renting your place, and then that person goes and rents it out without asking you. Exact same thing.

[busyman1]

Folks - don't bite my head off... Really... I am not talking about selling anything "you do not own". If I am granted the right to access a resource - I own that right, if not the resource itself. And I can do with that right as I please. Unless, of course, the ToS prevents me from doing so. None of this is illegal - it is simply against this particular ToS - that is not the same thing.
No, it is not like sub-leasing a rented apartment without owner knowledge - I never said that something like this should be done without notifying the "owner". In fact - I suggested the exact opposite - doing it with full knowledge and approval of the admins, if you read my post above. And such sub-letting is done all over the place in real life, quite legally. And, in fact - it is an added revenue stream to the owner, if done properly. Besides the fact that the apartment owner incurs liability of damaged property, while the game owner does not. In fact - the game owner incurs zero additional liability, because no matter how a particular user gains access to the game - the liability is exactly the same.
Again, allow me to reiterate - I simply disagree with labeling this action as "illegal", "immoral" or other such moniker - it is *against the ToS*, and as such - the rule for *this particular resource*. Other than that - it is in no way illegal according to any law.
Furthermore - if the administration allows for barter between users, as well as real money injection into the game (and possibly - out of the game) according to some internal exchange rate with a certain percentage of every transaction going to the company - the game becomes an absolute gold mine to the owner, as they in fact will become a virtual bank and a tax authority. Granted - there is no chance of this game doing this until and unless they build out this world many levels above what it is now. But the idea is sound, and very lucrative.